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Old 05-10-2009, 05:01 PM   #1
Marco Roy
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Default Changing the World

I’m sorry if this may seem a little out of place to any of you, but I’ve noticed that a lot of game designers (or aspiring) dream of a better world.

I don’t know if any of you have heard of the Zeitgeist Movies? Well, they are not only movies; they are documentaries that reflect the views of an organisation that wishes to make the world a better place: The Zeitgeist Movement.

The main objective of the movement is to eliminate the monetary system. I know, this may sound extreme, but if you think about it, you’ll realize that the monetary system is deeply flawed. I know you may not like the idea at first, but I hope I made you curious enough to at least watch the movies. There is also a very interesting orientation video that you can watch here.

P.S. You might want to be careful if you live in the US; I heard you can get arrested under the patriot act for watching these movies. Which is utterly despicable if you ask me.

I’ll understand if a moderator feels the need to remove this post.
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Last edited by yaustar : 05-10-2009 at 06:57 PM. Reason: clarifications
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Old 05-10-2009, 06:07 PM   #2
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Woah, you can get arrested for watching this in the US? That is despicable indeed. This "movement" is indeed flawed because one organization's perspective of a "better world" may seem completely preposterous to another. And also the fact that not everyone within the one organization thinks the same may be problematic.
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Old 05-10-2009, 06:57 PM   #3
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So, what's the discussion? It's like the first post got halfway through the point and then didn't summarise, but whatever:

Firstly: haha America.

Secondly: As a Game Designer (wannabe), I don't really "aspire to change the world". Honestly speaking, I enjoy things as they are. Sure we have problems, but a perfect utopia is full of flaws. When I create, I honestly create things that are removed from ours, but tie in with some parallels, else how can a person feel in-touch with a game?

I don't have a dream of a utopia, and I can hope some people grow up in this world, but without dark there is no light (and whatever other proverbs you have about that), because if everyone is light, then we begin comparing levels of brightness and some are seen as dark. So in summary, what we have now is all I could really ask for.

I'd like to say something like, "It seems utopia seems to have become a more talked about topic lately" with some recent media touching on the idea of a utopia and how to best achieve it, however the idea of changing the world has been around for ages.

If you're interested in all this, "Nineteen Eighty Four" and "Brave New World" are two very unique novels worth a read.

Finally: Is the monetary system flawed? Yes, but no. Will it change, no. Changing the game mechanics of the game of life is quite hard to do now that we have 7 billion users worldwide.
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:04 PM   #4
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I'm sorry tokoya, I meant the monetary system is flawed. I edited my post and clarified it.

You can get arrested in the US because they consider watching the movies an act of terrorism. Basically anything that goes against their fascist profit system is terrorism.

I think every organisation is deemed to seem preposterous in another’s perspective. For example, I guess afghan men think their society is better now that they can rape their wife legally. Of course, this would seem preposterous in our culture. In the same way, I guess they think our culture is preposterous too; or at least that’s what the Medias want us to believe.

I believe pretty much everyone in the organisation thinks the same way, with some slight variations, of course. For example, some are vegetarians and consider it horrible to eat meat - they don't like the idea of killing animals; however, if you think about it, we kill plants too. A study even showed that plants feel more pain when harmed than animals do.
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Roy View Post

P.S. You might want to be careful if you live in the US; I heard you can get arrested under the patriot act for watching these movies. Which is utterly despicable if you ask me.
............so much for the freedom Fox News speaks about lol, man i HATE that channel lol. they would say thats communism/socialism haha

i was talking about the whole real structure of the world with someone once and we just found everything funny and scary at the same time.
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:25 PM   #6
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bittman, first of all, I'd like to say that Utopia does not exist. The concept in itself is contradictory, because you can always make something better. Therefore, you can always try to reach Utopia, but it’ll always slip out of your hands.

I’m sad that you feel the world is okay right now, when 1% of the population drive around in their luxury cars, while hundreds of millions are starving. I understand though, I guess you just haven’t given it much thought.

I’ve read both these novels, but I don’t really see how they apply here. They’re more about conspiracy theories than anything else.

I sincerely hope the monetary system will fall, and when is does, our descendants will consider our current society incredibly primitive. If you think about it, you’ll realise that more than half of society’s problems come from the monetary system.

Borisk, I agree that a lot of things are scary right now. And I guess a few things can be considered funny, depending on where you live.
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:58 PM   #7
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Marco; have you ever heard of Chaos Theory?

The idea is that, due to changes in the variables of a complex system (even very small ones), the outcome of the system becomes radically different. Even if it's just one variable among thousands.

Simply put, predicting these systems (such as the weather) is nearly impossible because of the amount of variables that can affect it. The further ahead you try to predict, the more unknown variables there are, and the less likely the prediction will be accurate.

Now consider how many variables would be involved in predicting the outcome if the world decided to stop using the monetary system. Millions? Billions? Trillions? Much more.

You must understand this to see how ludicrous your claim is. You want to affect an incomprehensible amount of variables and claim to know the outcome will be "good." You have good intentions, but do not become so tainted by an idealogy you lose sight of reality.

Now, as far as Game Designers and changing the world...I say that my goals are expository in nature more than anything else. I fit into your "Aspiring Game Designer" demographic, though, so let's get some senior designers to address your topic.
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Old 05-11-2009, 02:39 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Roy View Post
bittman, first of all, I'd like to say that Utopia does not exist. The concept in itself is contradictory, because you can always make something better. Therefore, you can always try to reach Utopia, but it’ll always slip out of your hands.
Of course, but this is what you're getting at here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Roy View Post
I’m sad that you feel the world is okay right now, when 1% of the population drive around in their luxury cars, while hundreds of millions are starving. I understand though, I guess you just haven’t given it much thought.
Because it is a fanciful fictitious belief that luxury can exist without poverty. They come hand in hand, it's all to do with measurement. Centuries ago people were seen as well off if they lived to the ripe old age of 45, nowdays we deem that to be an unbearable thought and the height of poverty.

If you go back as far as evolution, you'll see there is always a monkey better off than another. If you go down a religious route, there have always been people of higher power. Either way, it's the social hierachy, and it is defined by poverty and wealth, though wealth nowdays is measured in luxuries rather than land or followers.

So, on your "I haven't given it much thought" and "obviously this is just another democratic pig" or something Marxist which will make me laugh: Marxism is a failed experiment. The notion would work if it was tested on robots, but it was designed for humans with human nature. Human nature may be partially greedy and ignorant, but it also desires to be justly rewarded for work and further improve upon what they have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Roy View Post
I’ve read both these novels, but I don’t really see how they apply here. They’re more about conspiracy theories than anything else.
Well, I'm foggy on 1984, but BNW was about a "Utopia" forced upon humans which, though sickening to us, almost works. Poverty does not exist, because it is eradicated. Chaos theory runs rampant through this novel also, with the main characters all being anomalies of some description. I did this in my English classes, so I read further beyond the "conspiracy theories" than you may have.

And if you are here to see the monetary system fall, it's because you like the idea of anarchy and war in our lifetime. Because if it fell, it would fall harder than Archduke Franz Ferdinand.

Finally: I'm enjoying this debate/topic.

EDIT: Your recent post is pretty fanciful and conspiratorial. Apparently drug companies like making us sick because it keeps them in a job? And there is always something to profit and lose by going to war.

And you don't like competition, yet you want to be a game designer? Come again?
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Last edited by bittman : 05-11-2009 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 05-10-2009, 08:23 PM   #9
Marco Roy
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I understand your concern Ezion; of course we cannot stop using the monetary system in one day. There has to be a transition period of many years to do so, but we can start now.

The first place I would start, personally, is education - everyone should be able to get one. That is a questionable choice, however, as it is more important to guarantee basic needs (food, water and shelter), but I feel that with a more educated population, these changes would be easier to make.

I cannot predict the outcome of removing the monetary system, but when I think of it, I don’t see why there would be any:
- Theft, in a world where everyone has access to the same things.
- Drugs & Prostitution, if there is no money to make from selling them.
- Wars, if there is no one to make a profit from them.
- Hunger, in a world were scientific efforts are turned towards abundance rather than war.
- Lack of space, if you remove most of the buildings that produce the same damn things as other (So-called competition).
- Pollution, in a world driven by technology rather than profit.
- Diseases, in a world where the pharmaceutical and medical system actually cures you rather than making sure you stay sick.
- And more...

Okay, some problems might come up, but none can be as big as all of these together. I know this can seem impractical, but I believe a solution can be found to any problem, and I don’t see why we couldn’t find a solution for these ones, and any other than comes up along the way.
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Roy View Post
- Lack of space, if you remove most of the buildings that produce the same damn things as other (So-called competition).
- Diseases, in a world where the pharmaceutical and medical system actually cures you rather than making sure you stay sick.
wow, you lack knowledge of the medical field, i can understand putting the claim that HMO's/insurance company are completely unfair but to say that the pharmacists and the doctors are keeping you sick is completely ignorant and that alone makes you sound like a conspiracy theorist.

and we don't have a lack of space. if you take the three largest counties of oregon in the U.S. and build a city with a density similar to new york city than you can fit the world's entire population. lack of space... no... lack of resources on the other hand is a yes.
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