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Old 01-16-2009, 05:21 PM   #21
ronnoc10
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Originally Posted by yaustar View Post
If the library just pays for the RRP price of the book and nothing else, yes.
I pretty sure that's how it works.


I feel kind of bad renting now, but I'm surprised publishers haven't gotten on that gravy train yet...
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:06 PM   #22
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Here's an out of the box solution/suggestion: what if publishers started handling distribution on their own? They could provide digital download rentals directly to the user or use a redistributor like steam on which they earn a return for each rental.

Or perhaps this is how it works in the shadowy ether that is the game production and marketing administration?
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:29 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Kodiak View Post
Here's an out of the box solution/suggestion: what if publishers started handling distribution on their own? They could provide digital download rentals directly to the user or use a redistributor like steam on which they earn a return for each rental.

Or perhaps this is how it works in the shadowy ether that is the game production and marketing administration?
The problem is games are huge, which means slow downloads, and some areas charge internet use by the GB downloaded.
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:44 AM   #24
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I agree that this can be a problem, but within a few years, should the internet not be able to handle this sort of load if its development is steered into the right direction?

Large file sizes certainly don't seem to frighten off those who use P2P systems to get their mitts on movies and cracked versions of software. Although I have no idea if the numbers of people who do this in anyway reflect the numbers of people who would be wiling to rent a game online or who already purchase them from steam or direct 2 drive type services.

Here's another idea that could perhaps reduce piracy: include a snazzy smart key that could be read (via USB port, perhaps) that will grant access to legitimately purchased software.

Here's how it could work:

1. Prospective game buyers/renters (herein referred to as 'gamers' ) are provided (free of charge - to encourage people to use it -- or with a small one-time charge to prevent on-site piracy as discussed in 4. below) a smart card and reader (much like the Entrust systems) at any game retailer;

2. Gamers select their desired game, pay for it at the counter/online shop, during which process their smart card gets loaded (either directly at the counter or via an email attachment) with the initial part of a crypto access key for accessing the game;

3. Game is installed. During this process, the smart card interacts with the seller's/publisher's website and confirms that the game is legitimate. If the game is a rental, an expiry date is entered into the software, which will disable it after a given time frame, unless an additional rental is made or the game is purchased, at which time the game becomes a fully-functioning version.

4. The smart card is no longer needed to run the game, as it was originally authenticated. However, to install the game onto a new computer, the smart card is required. There are no limits imposed to the number of installations as this control measure imposes a requirement to physically possess the smart card, thereby reducing the volume and rate of piracy using any single license for use.

This certainly imposes an additional complexity (which should be minor once gamers get used to the idea) and I think some developers use a similar concept (Battlefront.com does this, but entirely through software, which means that if the system is cracked there is no physical safeguard). However, in some ways, this harkens back to the good old days of needing to rifle through a game manual to find the right password before starting the day's gaming session.
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Old 02-15-2009, 02:04 PM   #25
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just an hour ago i really didn't think that piracy was all that bad... in fact, i believed that majority of pirates eventually buy the game that they received through peer to peer and such...

however on a website i visit daily (not going to mention the name because i'm unsure if there are rules in advertising other sites) there was this topic that dealt with piracy... i was astonished at the responses... my mind changed about piracy... this is some messed up anti-corporate mentality... i can understand standing up to corporate corruption but pirating isn't going to help, rather, it would make things a lot worse then what it already is...

some of the things i read included

1) video game companies just want to milk money from their customers and i don't want to be a part of that... i'll stand up to the corporate bastards by not paying for their product... i won't support the corporations... but i'll still use their product once i get a free copy

2) i'm only [insert a number below 18] and i don't have a job... i can't pay for this... it doesn't mean i don't want to pay... i just don't have it at the time... and any money i have i can't use... i need it for school and a new car

3) video games these days are nothing but shovel ware... the quality of these games are severely limp and these games are not what i thought it would be... i don't care if 20 websites gave this game an average of 93 out of 100... i want to see if this shooter is right for me despite the fact that i don't like shooters (if you don't already know... i am over exaggerating what i saw to show the idiocy of their defense... i mean people can do research before purchasing a game)

4) i maintain and practice freedom of free knowledge... i shouldn't have to pay to gain knowledge...

5) games are too expensive these days... i'm paying about 60 dollars for games that i am probably only going to play once and sometimes i might not even like the game so it may be a waste of money...

6) nintendo, sony, and microsoft are already making money by selling consoles... in order to play pirated games we must buy the console so more money in their pocket... (this wasn't over exaggerated)

7) my mom doesn't want me to play video games but i want to... that is why i pirate games so that my mom doesn't know that i have them...

8) i don't like to go outside... it is convenient... i don't have to drive to PAY for gas... i don't have to PAY the cashier... i don't have to PAY the developers for the game... if they allowed me to download these games then i MIGHT pay for these games...

there are plenty more but i will give you one more post i saw that disturbed me quite a bit

9) video game developers shouldn't force us to pay to play their games... instead... they should allow the games to be free of charge and if i like the game... i'll just donate some money to them... (that wasn't over exaggeration)

i'm going to tell the truth... i pirated games before... i have payed for them after i got my job when i got into college... and i seriously thought that every pirates acted the same way but i guess i was wrong...

@Kodiak - your idea is pretty cool... you should call it "NINJA" referencing the pirate v. ninja thing a while back
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:23 PM   #26
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Having only read through a few of the posts, I'm going to offer my thoughts before reading the rest.

Piracy has existed as long as digital media has. The first thing we need to establish is the difference between fair use practices (Now banned by the damned DMCA) and real piracy. I cant believe I'm old enough to actually describe this =[.

Fair use would fall under doing what is necessary to protect your investment as a legal consumer. This can mean making copies of your game in case your original is scratched or even can cover having a no-cd crack for whatever reason. I *very* firmly believe that it is the consumers right to do with their media as they please. So what if they use a no-cd crack or made a personal copy of the game? They bought it, they have a limited lists of rights that can be seen as fair use (Except these were all stripped under the DMCA, more on my thoughts about this later.)

Now, it is a form of piracy to give said copy of a game to a friend while keeping the original to use yourself. I see this kind of transaction as a harmful shade of grey, but not one to be concerned about. A responsible end user would encourage their friend to buy the software at a later date. On a related note, I feel all software should have some form of trial or free test version. It's a very viable option and that really allows users to make a strongly informed decision.

Piracy, true and blue, is the act of taking someone elses work and redistributing it for a profit. This is the kind of piracy that the DMCA, gov't agencies and the private sector all have worked VERY fervently to stamp out. It's harmful in many obvious and some less obvious ways. This kind of piracy should absolutely not be supported. It is a criminal act and very morally questionable. Just below it is the lighter area of providing a free copy. Still criminal, still a douche move, but the motivation changes how it should be handled in my eyes.

Giving a free copy of a game out is, at first glance, detrimental to a game developer. Oddly enough, actual market research, number crunching and examination of economic mechanics have shown that a certain amount of piracy kept in check may in fact be beneficial to a company. There are a few theories as to the exact mechanics, but it's probably the simple fact that any spread of your game will likely result in some form of revenue. Pirates generate interest that might not have existed before, in turn generating profit that typically comes close to balancing out loss. The net loss is less than expected.

Why pirate? A lot of data shows that pirating is very reactive in nature. For example, Spores DRM scheme launched it VERY quickly into the realm of most pirated game of all time. People, fearing the DRM, downloaded it instead. Mass pirating is self inflicted in many cases.

Free download with pay to play works incredibly well, but it comes with the icky downside of a monthly fee. Nobody wants to pay multiple monthly fees just to occasionally play a game they like. The natural solution is requiring an internet connection for validation of the game to play, but this is currently pretty controversial. I personally like the idea, i just wish the holes could be worked out of it.

Bottom line, the media industries are focusing on a problem that is only mildly consequential. They are wasting money and pissing off consumers with schemes to prevent pirating; schemes which have been shown time and a again to be costly and ineffective. They need to start working smarter, not harder. Just make pirating a pointless endeavor.

As far as the DMCA goes, it's useless. It was implemented poorly, harms the everyday enduser and is being abused by organizations such as the RIAA to harass and even ruin peoples lives. In some cases, it was twisted around in order to award a settlement of something in the realm of $44,000USD for a single song downloaded illegally. We need to abandon an attack the customer mentality and focus on a friendly method of protecting our investment that allows users the same freedom.

Wow, it's 1:30 AM O.O Time to sleep!
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:55 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Saroset View Post

Why pirate? A lot of data shows that pirating is very reactive in nature. For example, Spores DRM scheme launched it VERY quickly into the realm of most pirated game of all time. People, fearing the DRM, downloaded it instead. Mass pirating is self inflicted in many cases.
i don't think DRM has that much affect on a person's decision to pirate games, rather, it is just another excuse. i'm going to use an example. 2D Boy is an independent video game company with a staff of about 2 (not sure). there game world of goo was a success, a lot of people liked it on the pc. however, 2D Boy states that the piracy on their pc version is roughly 82%

http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/

this is a game with no DRM
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