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Old 04-05-2009, 02:03 PM   #21
Siberianhusky89
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Why is one person's opinion more important then another. One person didn't like it and didn't think it was good because it was imbalanced. A whole group of other people did enjoy it despite its flaws. Does this mean that the game is good or bad?

If it is good, why did the one person hate it? If it was bad, why did the group of players enjoy it regardless?

If players are enjoying an unbalanced game, does it matter that it is unbalanced?
It's more based around the experience. I'd rather trust a rocket scientist about how to build a rocket than I would about 50 random people. Balance is a key to games, especially fighting games. People believe Street Fighter 4 is VERY balanced, however, the only fighting games they probably ever played are Super Smash Bros and other Street Fighter games. Balance is probably the most important thing in a fighting game. To make a character that's not as good as everyone other is practically like saying "We're going to program this useless piece of information into the game just so it seems better." Balanced games are VERY essential to fighting games. It gives every character a fair chance to win, it allows so that when two people compete it was a fair match. Without balance in a fighting game it's like saying "Hey, choose these characters, those other ones aren't important."
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:53 AM   #22
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While balance does matter for tournament play, if a large majority of players are enjoying an unbalanced game, does it make it good or bad?
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Old 04-06-2009, 06:20 AM   #23
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While balance does matter for tournament play, if a large majority of players are enjoying an unbalanced game, does it make it good or bad?
It all depends on the game. People BELIEVE that Street Fighter 4 is very balanced, but if they were to think it was unbalanced, they would think it's a bad game. The only fighting game that's ever been the exception to the rule of fighting games is M.U.G.E.N which is suppose to be balanced. Street Fighter 4 doesn't have much going for it too, the only thing that it should have concentrated on is balance and it failed at that too. The storylines are kind of generic and some are VERY cheesy, the music is nowhere near as epic as Street Fighter 2 or Street Fighter 3 except when they remix the SF2 songs and you can only hear them then. The English Voice acting is pretty damned bad. The most interesting thing in the game are the backgrounds and even they're not that good. The reason why I think the backgrounds are even somewhat interesting is that during a fight, if something happens, it affects the background.
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Old 04-06-2009, 06:34 AM   #24
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It all depends on the game. People BELIEVE that Street Fighter 4 is very balanced, but if they were to think it was unbalanced, they would think it's a bad game.
Personally, I think you missed the point. Whether a game is good or bad doesn't depend on the game, it depends on the person playing it. If the player is enjoying the game, it doesn't matter whether the game is 'supposed' to be technically bad or good in the eyes of that one player, that game is 'good'.

Have you considered that some of the players know it is unbalanced yet still say it is a good game because they enjoy playing it? For the players that believe it is balanced, what makes you think that they would turn away from the game when they learn it is unbalanced if they are enjoying the game regardless in its current form?
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:01 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by yaustar View Post
Have you considered that some of the players know it is unbalanced yet still say it is a good game because they enjoy playing it? For the players that believe it is balanced, what makes you think that they would turn away from the game when they learn it is unbalanced if they are enjoying the game regardless in its current form?
I would have to say this ressonates with me alot. Fun is defined by the individual experiencing it. Is chess fun? Some people think so, others don't think so. This is true for any sport as well. People may enjoy some sports, while not others. Usually regardless of flaws in the game!

A number of the RTS and MMORPG games that I have played have balence issues. Usually these issues evolve with each update to the game. However, that is where fun is born for many individuals! In adapting to the changes, rising up to the handicaps and devising counters to the most effective "FOTM" strategies, some people find excitment and satisfction.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:06 AM   #26
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Personally, I think you missed the point. Whether a game is good or bad doesn't depend on the game, it depends on the person playing it. If the player is enjoying the game, it doesn't matter whether the game is 'supposed' to be technically bad or good in the eyes of that one player, that game is 'good'.

Have you considered that some of the players know it is unbalanced yet still say it is a good game because they enjoy playing it? For the players that believe it is balanced, what makes you think that they would turn away from the game when they learn it is unbalanced if they are enjoying the game regardless in its current form?
I do understand, however, it seems as though the only reason they may like a game is because they see the faces that they all want to see. Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Zangief, etc... I have seen sites and people do consider the game "VERY balanced". But it's not fun if you take so much effort into a game and then one person can come along and turn everything around within 1 move while having so much different advantages. I've read reviews online and my God how they lie. "You know how in the old Street Fighters people just spammed Hadoukens and other projectiles or moves? You won't see that in Street Fighter 4 online mode." Guess what I see in online mode? "HADOUKEN! HADOUKEN! HADOUKEN! HADOUKEN! HADOUKEN!" or "SHORYUKEN! SHORYUKEN! SHORYUKEN!" I've practically never heard one round online where I don't hear those words coming out of Ken or Ryu. Online mode should be called Super Ken Fighters.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:14 PM   #27
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What does your ranting now have to do with the original topic? We are not here to fanboy for or against a game. I feel that this topic is becoming unproductive.
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Old 04-06-2009, 02:01 PM   #28
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What does your ranting now have to do with the original topic? We are not here to fanboy for or against a game. I feel that this topic is becoming unproductive.
Could have been a bit more kind about it "-_- Anyhow, what I'm trying to state is this. I believe that companies are giving the fans what they want to see for money, to be honest, I was a bit tempted after seeing the faces of Ryu, Ken, Blanka, etc... But then, I got the game and it was a huge disappointment because the game was unfair, but people don't care because their favorite characters (Ryu, Ken, Akuma, and Zangief) are really powerful, the characters that are liked the best. Nobody really cares about how the other characters are as long as the characters they want to play is good, and considering that Ryu, Ken, and Akuma have the biggest fanbase in Street Fighters, it doesn't matter if everyone else isn't as good as long as the favorites are fine. Basically, what I mean is it seems like companies are more about the money than creating a game of quality, time, and effort. People don't realize that 3D polygons are easier to make than something 2D that's hand drawn very well, as a matter a fact, they think 3D polygons are much harder to construct, they CAN be, but not all the time. Marketing seems pretty much like Quality of a game Vs. What the fans want in order to make money.
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Old 04-06-2009, 03:12 PM   #29
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Marketing seems pretty much like Quality of a game Vs. What the fans want in order to make money.
Honestly, the two points here are synonymous. What the fans want is quality gameplay, and it's generally what they will get unless the studio has a brain-snap.

So from your point about Street Fighter, apparently putting quality into characters with a large fanbase was a poor decision and equal quality should have been given to all? It's like saying that, if they made another Final Fantasy 7, they should make Barret as good as Cloud or Vincent.

Also, your points on balance I would assume are of a personal opinion. Are those characters really much much better than others, and can this judgement really be made so soon after release? Isn't it more that the people playing tend to work on the characters they know and love first?
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Old 04-06-2009, 05:42 PM   #30
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Honestly, the two points here are synonymous. What the fans want is quality gameplay, and it's generally what they will get unless the studio has a brain-snap.

So from your point about Street Fighter, apparently putting quality into characters with a large fanbase was a poor decision and equal quality should have been given to all? It's like saying that, if they made another Final Fantasy 7, they should make Barret as good as Cloud or Vincent.

Also, your points on balance I would assume are of a personal opinion. Are those characters really much much better than others, and can this judgement really be made so soon after release? Isn't it more that the people playing tend to work on the characters they know and love first?
Should they not make Barret good in some equal way though? Also, with fighting games, it's quite different. Everyone should be as balanced as possible in those type of games and I'll provide two different examples.

Let's say that you were to go to court. Wouldn't you feel better if your lawyer and the prosecutor or other lawyer was equal in value? You're competing against others, not some monsters that are programmed into the game. It should be equal chance, equal chance. If I were to lose in a game that I had a fair advantage with, I wouldn't be mad, but that's not the case. Anyhow, it's a fallacy to state just because the majority says something's good, it is good, you know? Plus, the fans would say something like "Hey! Give him this and that because we love this character and we want him to be better than others and we don't care about what those fans that like those other characters like." Can you really trust the fan's opinions if they do that kind of stuff and would that honestly make a quality game? The balance is that so someone can feel okay and they stand a chance with improvement. If you have to break into sweat and tears just to do something anywhere near as good as someone that doesn't try with a cheap character, it wouldn't be fun anymore.
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