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Old 08-02-2008, 11:38 PM   #11
TimEdwards
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I skipped somethings but I'll toss out my opinion here.

Damage is an easy way to measure things. HP is just a representation of how close you are to death. For one I loved the EA take on Fight Night Round 3, where you watched your guy get pummelled and bleed. But this can't really apply to all games.

I would like to see it in RPGs, but all the same types of characters would get the same animation and eventually it would get boring all over again. I would like to see stuff like I have seen in Company of Heroes where you attack a tank and depending on your guys you might disable movement, or it's main gun. I think the need to give a bit more thought into these enemy AIs.

Also, when low on health things should be doing all they can to survive... I don't understand how after a battle a goblin can drop a healing potion when he was getting cleaved. If the potion heals, why not use it before we die? I think there should be some sort of panic mode for most characters. Also, I love the idea of hitboxes on armor. I love seeing a guy in full plate come at me in Oblivion, only to get an arrow to his unprotected neck. I think the future lies in details, not so much in graphical amazingness. It's only a matter of time before people get sick of amazing looking terrible games.
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Old 08-03-2008, 04:04 AM   #12
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STALKER became a much greater game after I found out how to tweak the weapon damages X10.

Now I couldn't even imagine playing it any other way.

The weapons became things of power and excitement, instead of being powerless toys.


With these settings, any shot will "kill" any unprotected human target.

Only the heaviest of armors offer any kind of protection agains assault rifle calibres. They _might_ take the shot from long ranges, but there are no guarantees.
(It just feels amazing, when you are being ambushed and your vest just barely saves you for a certain death as you charge for cover).

In most cases, bullets however are leathal.
They cause a heavy impact, in addition with heavy bleeding. Even if you don't perish immediately, you have very little time to apply bandage.

I have done similar modifications to Half-life +(opposing force + blue shift) and Battlefield 1942.

Every time the results have enhanced the experience for me.

Last edited by DTR : 08-03-2008 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 08-03-2008, 04:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak View Post
It appears to me that although graphics have advanced in leaps and bounds, game play has not followed suit. If anything, games have become simpler, catering to reduced attention spans and twitchy trigger fingers.

That's fine, but can we not include enhancements to the realism and level of detail behind some of these games to match the progress we've made graphically? If not, why not? I think it's patronizing to the younger players out there to believe that they would be uninterested in such detail.

Of course, I may be really misdjudging the iPod generation...
You're right, but the game audience isn't so homogeneous, it's not all watered down to be played by non-gamers; moreover, words like "casual" are already abused or overused. Obviously it's like who says PC is dead: there's someone else who says right the contrary. It's kind of difficult to have a good panoramic view.. for me, at least.

What I see in nowadays games is a positive increment of usability and a shift from challange toward experience. "Make it accessible, but deep enough to entrail the experts in the long term" should be a good caveat to follow, but too many end to make it only "simple".

P.S. thanks to consoles and integrated chips, graphic is not as advanced as it could be!
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Old 08-03-2008, 05:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimEdwards View Post
Also, when low on health things should be doing all they can to survive... I don't understand how after a battle a goblin can drop a healing potion when he was getting cleaved. If the potion heals, why not use it before we die? I think there should be some sort of panic mode for most characters. [...]
It's only a matter of time before people get sick of amazing looking terrible games.
A panic/survival mode could be awesome, really, but you can't change an addicting mechanism for the sake of realism or coherence, it has to be equally addictive.
Then..why those goblins don't use healing potions? Because potions are inside the body and are dropped only when goblins are smashed to death Right?
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:21 AM   #15
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Another game that had a very neat approach and very detailed damage model was Soldiers, Heroes of World War II.

The graphics are great (even a few years down the road now) and I remember spending many hours gleefully trying to figure out what would happen when I would fire a bazooka at various parts of oncoming armour.

The visual representation of the damage gave you a very good idea whether you were being ineffective or not agains your enemy. It led to favouring attacks from the flanks and rear and hours of thoughtful (???as opposed to mindless, I guess! ) mayhem!

With regards to the 'dvoxel' concept I brough forward earlier (this is for B Luke, I think, sorry for not explaining further the option I proposed...I didn't intend to mislead) I also think there'd be a way to introduce a 'coherence' factor to each dvoxel making up various bits of an object or character. This would represent how likely each dvoxel is likely to remain bound to the ones adjacent to it. Forces can then be applied (by the environment, an attack, etc.) and if sufficient quantities are applied, then the dvoxel detaches from the ones around it. If a dvoxel was part of a muscle group, the muscles that relied on it cease to work, if it's part of a bone, the bone could crack, if it's an artery (or hydraulic line...), the arteries bleed, spilling a certain amount of the overall total held within a character.

Effects could be charted out on a table to determine the game play effects. For example, at 10% blood loss, the character experiences a decrease in dexterity and perception. Groupings of shots and recoil control become harder, vision blurs and darkens around the edges of the screen. Effects worsen until blood loss reaches lethal levels.

This could also open up interesting aspects of game play for medical treatment, first aid, cybernetic enhancements, etc.

I definitely think this would be an outstanding addition to RPGs and particularly RPG/FPS hybrids.

It may in fact be of most use for serious games.
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Old 08-03-2008, 03:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak View Post
Another game that had a very neat approach and very detailed damage model was Soldiers, Heroes of World War II.

The graphics are great (even a few years down the road now) and I remember spending many hours gleefully trying to figure out what would happen when I would fire a bazooka at various parts of oncoming armour.

The visual representation of the damage gave you a very good idea whether you were being ineffective or not agains your enemy. It led to favouring attacks from the flanks and rear and hours of thoughtful (???as opposed to mindless, I guess! ) mayhem!

With regards to the 'dvoxel' concept I brough forward earlier (this is for B Luke, I think, sorry for not explaining further the option I proposed...I didn't intend to mislead) I also think there'd be a way to introduce a 'coherence' factor to each dvoxel making up various bits of an object or character. This would represent how likely each dvoxel is likely to remain bound to the ones adjacent to it. Forces can then be applied (by the environment, an attack, etc.) and if sufficient quantities are applied, then the dvoxel detaches from the ones around it. If a dvoxel was part of a muscle group, the muscles that relied on it cease to work, if it's part of a bone, the bone could crack, if it's an artery (or hydraulic line...), the arteries bleed, spilling a certain amount of the overall total held within a character.

Effects could be charted out on a table to determine the game play effects. For example, at 10% blood loss, the character experiences a decrease in dexterity and perception. Groupings of shots and recoil control become harder, vision blurs and darkens around the edges of the screen. Effects worsen until blood loss reaches lethal levels.

This could also open up interesting aspects of game play for medical treatment, first aid, cybernetic enhancements, etc.

I definitely think this would be an outstanding addition to RPGs and particularly RPG/FPS hybrids.

It may in fact be of most use for serious games.
If its possible, I think any gamer would want to play that kind of realism I think we have the technology, just not the exact knowledge to put that in place.
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Old 08-03-2008, 04:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
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The graphical aspect of something like this is pretty intriguing as well, imagine seeing your armor crumble and break, and when damage is actually done to your character, he bleeds, breaks bones, and loses body parts. Maybe you can even hit an opponent's gun to disable it. There is a lot of room for exploration in this area!

So, I believe this system or a similar one will be coming on the market within the next 5 years, because hit points are definitely getting outdated, and this physics engines leading the way to bigger and better games, one can only hope blowing chunks or armor off your enemies, and maybe even being able to shoot limbs off, is in the next phase in the game industry.
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Old 08-03-2008, 05:03 PM   #18
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So what knowledge would be required to execute something like this? I'm not aiming this specifically at you, Toyoka, but more as a question to get brainstorming.

I don't think the hurdles are in the understanding of the effects of damage in the real world. There are several pen and paper games out there that reflet the effects in an interesting fashion. Better still, there is a wealth of real world knowledge available in medical and engineering journals for reference.

Which would leave either challenges in terms of coding or processing to overcome.

Would something like this really be so difficult to program?

Do we need more processor power and RAM to pull this off? Innovative use of physics cards like Aegia's?

Deep down, I suspect that we can pull this off with the knowledge available. The bigger problem is that there is not enough bang for the buck produced by this sort of feature. Why bother spending time coding something like this when most players are more than happy to overlook sophistication in favour of flashy explosions? It certainly works for most Hollywood movies...

What are your thoughts?
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Old 08-03-2008, 06:54 PM   #19
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I guess something similar will end up in most middleware engines within the next ten years...
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miztef;
Bla bla bla.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnoc10 View Post
Do you play video games?
Lol, he described things that have been around for more than a decade.
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