Get the latest Education e-news
 
Old 12-01-2009, 10:48 PM   #1
Siberianhusky89
Senior Member

Activity Longevity
0/20 16/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss156
Location: Sterling Height, Michigan
Default Music

The idea of good music and bad music is subjective sadly. Anyhow, basically, there's no true definition for "Good" and "Bad" music...

However, I have a definition of "True Music" in a way... To me, true music is the expression of emotion and feeling through sound and such. That's why I could never really consider someone like Soulja Boy as a "musician", all he does is rap about absolutely nothing actually... He just says crap to make money from what I can tell, it's odd but when a musician hears music, the ones that are expressed truly often feel like the best. Even in the gaming industry, the "importance" of music has diminished a bit in my opinion. I don't mean the actual importance of music, rather, the values of it's importance.

Honestly, I don't think people realize how important music can be, especially in video games. One of the reasons I felt a hint of fear in Silent Hill 1 was because of the ambience the music caused. The reason I felt so pumped up in Street Fighter 2 was because of the music as well, and both the musicians for the games were very passionate about what they were doing. Hell, the guy who did Silent Hill 1's soundtrack took it quite seriously and felt as if he was "the man for the job". (Akira Yamaoka)

The creator for Street Fighter 2's soundtrack was Yoko Shimomura, a person who deeply cares about music is inspired by her passions and emotions. It feels like the industry of both music and gaming industry don't care as much about these things (With the exception of a couple companies). Anyhow, what are your opinions on this?

If I'm ever to make it to the industry (And I can only damned as much hope considering how greedy some video game industries are seeming), I'd try to find a way in order for the music to be good in the games, even if that includes doing the soundtrack myself for free.
Siberianhusky89 is offline  
Old 12-07-2009, 06:29 PM   #2
Gshonk
Moderator

Activity Longevity
0/20 20/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss831
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Default

I don't really agree, I think most studios recognize the importance of music in games, and I know for a fact the composers take it seriously (just check out GANG those guys aren't messing around). I know quite a few game composers myself and can attest to how serious they take their job and the impact it has on players.

For recent games with soundtracks that were very vital check out Uncharted 2, Modern Warfare 2 and Brutal Legend. All of these used the soundtrack to drive home emotional parts of the game.
__________________
Grant Shonkwiler()
"I would love to fix the world if someone would just give me the source code"
Website Industry blog LinkedIn
Gshonk is offline  
Old 12-09-2009, 06:26 PM   #3
Siberianhusky89
Senior Member

Activity Longevity
0/20 16/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss156
Location: Sterling Height, Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gshonk View Post
I don't really agree, I think most studios recognize the importance of music in games, and I know for a fact the composers take it seriously (just check out GANG those guys aren't messing around). I know quite a few game composers myself and can attest to how serious they take their job and the impact it has on players.

For recent games with soundtracks that were very vital check out Uncharted 2, Modern Warfare 2 and Brutal Legend. All of these used the soundtrack to drive home emotional parts of the game.
perhaps, I mean, I'm not saying none of them do, those are just some examples. Metal Gear Solid 4 definitely hit me hard with the music and so did a game like Uncharted 2 and even Blazblue. But it seems like the majority just doesn't give 2 craps, for example, Street Fighter 4's music was some of the most disgraceful pieces of, what I'm displeased to call, music, Resident Evil 5's music was nothing fascinating or mood breaking either. Anyhow, those are some examples of games, however, it seems less groundbreaking and that they don't take it to their fullest extent at times. I mean, it's not horrible music most of the time, it's just "Whatever" or "It's alright" and that's it, compared to how it use to be.
Siberianhusky89 is offline  
Old 12-10-2009, 02:54 PM   #4
Gshonk
Moderator

Activity Longevity
0/20 20/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss831
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Default

Sadly sometimes developers or publishers don't care. Or they just don't have the money to hire an A list composer. Interesting that both of the games that you mentioned are Japanese games, Do you think that might have something to do with it? Or maybe how you perceive their music?
__________________
Grant Shonkwiler()
"I would love to fix the world if someone would just give me the source code"
Website Industry blog LinkedIn
Gshonk is offline  
Old 12-11-2009, 03:20 PM   #5
Siberianhusky89
Senior Member

Activity Longevity
0/20 16/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss156
Location: Sterling Height, Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gshonk View Post
Sadly sometimes developers or publishers don't care. Or they just don't have the money to hire an A list composer. Interesting that both of the games that you mentioned are Japanese games, Do you think that might have something to do with it? Or maybe how you perceive their music?
Actually, I love the music in Blazblue, that game is Japanese as well. Also, Metal Gear Solid is Japanese too... Now that I think about it, all the games I listed are Japanese, but the thing is, most video games are made in Japan. Of course, there are American games without a sense of music too, one I want to mention is... Well, I'm not sure if I can count it, but alot of the songs on Rockband games aren't to my liking and a bit generic. I like music to be creative or advanced in it's own way, though I don't mind if it's simple as long as it doesn't sound like almost every other song out there.
Siberianhusky89 is offline  
Old 12-11-2009, 03:37 PM   #6
Gshonk
Moderator

Activity Longevity
0/20 20/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss831
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberianhusky89 View Post
Actually, I love the music in Blazblue, that game is Japanese as well. Also, Metal Gear Solid is Japanese too... Now that I think about it, all the games I listed are Japanese
Haha yea most of them are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberianhusky89 View Post
but the thing is, most video games are made in Japan.
Not true at all, it just seems like those are the ones that you like to play the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberianhusky89 View Post
Of course, there are American games without a sense of music too, one I want to mention is... Well, I'm not sure if I can count it, but alot of the songs on Rockband games aren't to my liking and a bit generic. I like music to be creative or advanced in it's own way, though I don't mind if it's simple as long as it doesn't sound like almost every other song out there.
Well you have to realize these songs are picked to sell units so they are going to pick the most popular, and most fun to play, songs on the music market.
__________________
Grant Shonkwiler()
"I would love to fix the world if someone would just give me the source code"
Website Industry blog LinkedIn
Gshonk is offline  
Old 12-11-2009, 08:29 PM   #7
Siberianhusky89
Senior Member

Activity Longevity
0/20 16/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss156
Location: Sterling Height, Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gshonk View Post
Haha yea most of them are.



Not true at all, it just seems like those are the ones that you like to play the most.



Well you have to realize these songs are picked to sell units so they are going to pick the most popular, and most fun to play, songs on the music market.
Well, I do actually enjoy games from other countries. I think LittleBigPlanet was a very neat game and provided alot, and Fallout 3 seemed like alot of fun, but I think one of the most impressive is the Valve collection in the American market. Of course, you don't see too many FPS's from Japan because, and I quote "It makes us dizzy", which is quite odd actually. Anyhow, it's not that alot of them suck or anything, it's just that alot of them aren't really something to talk about like they were back in the day. I could listen to SF2's soundtrack all day or Donkey Kong Country's.

If that last statement is true though, that explains alot "^^ Not to be mean to any person out there, but the majority of people who listen to music, listen to the crap that's played on the radio. I mean, Soulja Boy? He's complete and utter trash (No offense to anyone out there). But anyhow, music is not about popularity and game companies should realize that.

It's more or less a way to express your emotions or make something that sound good to you or seems like it would sound good for what it's meant through inspiration. RadioHead isn't one of the greatest bands out there right now because they were trying to become popular and make money, Hell, they pretty much gave out their last album "In Rainbows" for free. They didn't even care afterwards that people were getting it for free.

Anyhow, allow me to take SF4 into example again. When the songs were made for that game, the emotion was just not there. It sounded straight up as if the music was made in an attempt to please the masses because apparently, Electronica is popular nowadays. There was no expression felt in the music though and it practically felt sooo hollow that I felt the blind blowing through my soul in emptyness and my ears shatter. Not to offend anyone again, but the majority likes very generic and simplified music and that's what the theme was, I was just surprised that the majority actually REJECTED it. I guess it was too horrible even for them, which was a shocker.

Anyhow, perhaps it's just me *Sigh* I don't know...
Siberianhusky89 is offline  
Old 12-12-2009, 02:19 AM   #8
Adrir
Administrator
 
Adrir's Avatar

Activity Longevity
1/20 20/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss1466
Location: London, UK
Default

In my opinion, I feel it is important to make that game developers understand that to effectivley leverage music, they need to recruit composers who understand both appropriate music forms (not neccessarily classic) and the contexts of game music. If you want professional music, then hire experienced professionals. Furthermore, I feel it is neccessary to involve them as early as appropriate in order to align the soundscape with the overall aesthetic of the game. Don't just tack sound and music on at the end!

I think there are many examples of games that have excellent scores. Many JRPGs by Square-Enix including the Final Fantasy series, Lost Odyssey, Chrono Trigger and other JRPGs such as Xenosaga (Monolith), DotHack (CyberConnect2) and the Metal Gear Solid series (Konami) have a lot to offer. Outside of Japan, there are a variety of games that have wonderful music too. The WestWood's (& EA's) Command & Conquer series immediately jumps to mind, in addition to Blizzard's Diablo series and games such as Bungie's Halo 3 and Bioware's Mass Effect.

Jeremy Soule has been producing music for games for a long time and I am rarely dissapointed. Using Guild Wars as an example, while the gameplay is somewhat different to traditional MMORPGs, the music carries the narritive very effectively. Each region of the game is effectively captured using a variety of styles and moods. Jon Hallur has made some wonderful tracks for EvE Online and released them to the community. Martin O'Donnell's work on Halo and Jack Wall's for Mass Effect - simply incredible. Possibly some of the best examples of orchestral work in games released in the last few years.

In fact, some of my favourite pieces of music in general have featured in popular titles. These include works by Yuki kajiura, Nobuo Uematsu and Yasunori Mitsuda. Three very excellent composers whom, in my opinion, can effectivily exploit music to convey the emotion in a scene or gameplay.
__________________
Michael 'Adrir' Scott :: Games, Virtual Worlds, Education
Networking | Current Project | Research | Teaching
Adrir is offline  
Old 12-12-2009, 10:28 AM   #9
Siberianhusky89
Senior Member

Activity Longevity
0/20 16/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss156
Location: Sterling Height, Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrir View Post
In my opinion, I feel it is important to make that game developers understand that to effectivley leverage music, they need to recruit composers who understand both appropriate music forms (not neccessarily classic) and the contexts of game music. If you want professional music, then hire experienced professionals. Furthermore, I feel it is neccessary to involve them as early as appropriate in order to align the soundscape with the overall aesthetic of the game. Don't just tack sound and music on at the end!

I think there are many examples of games that have excellent scores. Many JRPGs by Square-Enix including the Final Fantasy series, Lost Odyssey, Chrono Trigger and other JRPGs such as Xenosaga (Monolith), DotHack (CyberConnect2) and the Metal Gear Solid series (Konami) have a lot to offer. Outside of Japan, there are a variety of games that have wonderful music too. The WestWood's (& EA's) Command & Conquer series immediately jumps to mind, in addition to Blizzard's Diablo series and games such as Bungie's Halo 3 and Bioware's Mass Effect.

Jeremy Soule has been producing music for games for a long time and I am rarely dissapointed. Using Guild Wars as an example, while the gameplay is somewhat different to traditional MMORPGs, the music carries the narritive very effectively. Each region of the game is effectively captured using a variety of styles and moods. Jon Hallur has made some wonderful tracks for EvE Online and released them to the community. Martin O'Donnell's work on Halo and Jack Wall's for Mass Effect - simply incredible. Possibly some of the best examples of orchestral work in games released in the last few years.

In fact, some of my favourite pieces of music in general have featured in popular titles. These include works by Yuki kajiura, Nobuo Uematsu and Yasunori Mitsuda. Three very excellent composers whom, in my opinion, can effectivily exploit music to convey the emotion in a scene or gameplay.
Exactly, it does so very well. Maybe it's perhaps not the musicians but the designer's fault for these problems. One of my favorite video game composers though is Yoko Shimomura, she sees music in a way that I believe it was meant to be seen. Nowadays, most people would say this about the music in video games (And I quote) "Who the fuck cares about the music?! It's not important to the game!"

Feels like a knife was stabbed through my heart. Now, I'm not looking to be a video game composer, but as a musician (Not professional per say), it felt like a knife was stabbed through my heart. Anyhow, another example of a great composer is Akira Yamaoka, and to those punks I'd say, "You know that fear that's instilled to you when you play Silent Hill? It's because of the music." And this man knows it. If I'm not mistaken, he eventually became a Producer, which is quite odd, I didn't think you could go from being a video game composer and become a Producer. Personally, I'm not sure I'd do such a thing nowadays cause people would probably expect you to make games like Rock Band or Guitar Hero, and that isn't my "thing".

Anyhow, after reading what was said, it's probably now the gamer's faults as well as developers partially for the lack of luster in music. They don't appreciate what's given to them and so, here we are. But no matter where you go, even if you see a shitty movie, play a crappy game, you can sometimes find really good or amazing music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM21zfxMqhc

You probably know this game. One of the worst ever, though unfinished. Even so, the song was considered pretty amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugh8T...eature=related

This game wasn't too popular either (But I think it was pretty good and very fun), but again, the music is pretty "kickin". Anyhow, I just hope that people realize just how important the music is in games and start appreciating it more. The emotion brought about, the excitement and motivation, the ambience or emotion brought by brilliant and fitting music is just so important. Hell, for my project to one of my classes, we have to make a simple game (The game I made is really simple, you have to dodge these missiles that are falling at you by pressing left and right. It looks like crap and I gave it an atari looking style. It's not the Atari style that looks like crap, but I just suck at drawing), but anyhow, I composed my own music for the game.

I used Frooty Loops though, I'm disappointed in my work cause it's off beat by a little. I know a bit of music theory, so that's the only reason I was able to get it to be decent (I'm not too good with Frooty Loops), though I prefer to actually use a keyboard or my bass guitar, however... My brother screwed up my keyboard a little and my bass is missing a string and I have no money right now. T_T
Siberianhusky89 is offline  
Old 12-28-2009, 02:01 PM   #10
Siberianhusky89
Senior Member

Activity Longevity
0/20 16/20
Today Posts
0/11 ssssss156
Location: Sterling Height, Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugtrecu View Post
Exactly, it does so very well. Maybe it's perhaps not the musicians but the designer's fault for these problems. One of my favorite video game composers though is Yoko Shimomura, she sees music in a way that I believe it was meant to be seen. Nowadays, most people would say this about the music in video games (And I quote) "Who the fuck cares about the music?! It's not important to the game!"
Yeah... And it also feels like another knife was stabbed through my heart today (Along with my hatred for Street Fighter 4 and it's popularity). Kidz Bop Beatles... Does someone hate me or something? *Sigh* Feels like every time I'm upset, something has to make it worse "-_- But anyhow, if it's truly the designer's fault... I hope there's one that has his head on right. It seems like most of the people making games nowadays couldn't give two craps about actually making the games sometimes, and care more about profits. Maybe that's just me though.
Siberianhusky89 is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:15 PM.






UBM Tech